00;00;27;04 - 00;00;55;11

Speaker

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. My name is Eric Tilman, the CEO of Tilman Builders. And I'm here with J.P. Mel, our operations manager. How are you doing, JP? I'm good, I'm good. I'm tired. The holidays make me tired. You get tired too. But other than that, I'm pretty great. Good. I'm pretty great. Good. So you've been with the company for, I want to say six years.

 

00;00;55;11 - 00;01;24;16

Speaker

Seven years? It'll be seven years in July, so, like so six and a half years. Okay. Yeah. And. And what? How long ago was it that you took my job as operations manager? Two and a half years. Okay. Two and a half years ago, I think. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was two years in the field as a carpenter, like two years going from kind of laborer to lead carpenter.

 

00;01;24;18 - 00;01;53;02

Speaker

Then it was two years as a lead carpenter. And. Yeah, so it'll be three years right around the same like, like beginning of summer ish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Good. So when you when you came, when you, when you came into that position one I knew you'd be good at the job and and you are. But there was something that I thought I was very good at.

 

00;01;53;02 - 00;02;17;26

Speaker

And I was nervous that you were not going to be good at it. Okay. And that was maintaining the company culture. Now, here we are, years later. It's better than ever. It's better than ever. Yeah. You're welcome. Yeah. Thank you. I was really concerned, you know, but. Yeah. No, I would be too. Yeah. You you did a you spun it.

 

00;02;17;27 - 00;02;41;17

Speaker

You know what I was good at? I kind of got a whole bunch of guys on the bus and excited to move forward and then. But I would I sugarcoated things for a while, which I think I needed to do, maybe to, to get everybody moving in a direction together. But then you you brought accountability into the culture, I feel.

 

00;02;41;19 - 00;03;04;00

Speaker

I mean, I think I started having some very real conversations with, with everybody about what we needed them to do for us to move forward and for them to move forward. And.

 

00;03;04;02 - 00;03;33;06

Speaker

Yeah, I think it fit where we were at. And and I think ultimately, if you have the right people in, in the company, they're appreciative. Yeah. Like and if they're and if they're not, if they're not appreciative, they might not be the right people. Appreciative of the feedback. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like, like we want people who want to grow and you can't grow comfortably.

 

00;03;33;09 - 00;04;00;10

Speaker

That's true. Like, you can't you can't grow comfortably and you can't like it. It's it can be hard to grow on your own. I think everybody needs needs feedback and needs someone else's perspective. Yeah. To to see their blind spots and to let them know what they're doing. Great. And to let them know what what we need them to change or do better or whatever.

 

00;04;00;12 - 00;04;04;04

Speaker

And.

 

00;04;04;06 - 00;04;25;16

Speaker

Then they make more money. Then they get better opportunities. Then they get like, their life gets better. Life gets like, I think all of our lives get better if we get feedback from other people. Like, I made sure that you were comfortable being very, very honest with me because I wanted to know what was needed from me as clearly as possible from from the get go.

 

00;04;25;19 - 00;04;50;08

Speaker

And I wanted to make sure that we instilled that across the whole field crew and that it was just normal and that people were comfortable with it or comfortable with the, the discomfort because discomfort can come with it. But, that was really important to me as I stepped into the job. It's funny you got me thinking about kind of.

 

00;04;50;11 - 00;05;01;05

Speaker

Yeah. So what is it that you do differently than what I. And it was almost like I got the whole team comfortable with showering.

 

00;05;01;08 - 00;05;24;06

Speaker

Each other with praise. Right? Right. Two guys, two rough dudes. At 25 years old, they both make the same amount of money. And I got everybody to feel comfortable saying, I love you, man, and we're going to be nice to each other. We're gonna be kind to each. We're gonna be nice. Yeah, yeah. And then you got everybody comfortable with the next thing, which was feedback, accountability.

 

00;05;24;11 - 00;05;44;09

Speaker

I love you, man. But stop doing that. Yeah. And we needed that. We really needed that. And it has to be both. It absolutely has to be both. Yeah I agree. Yeah. What does culture mean to you personally? Like what does that even mean? We say it all the time, but what is it?

 

00;05;44;11 - 00;06;24;06

Speaker

That's a that's a good question. That's a hard question. I think it's a set of expectations for how we act and how we treat each other, how we treat our customers. You know, it's it's our core values applied to all the different choices and actions that we have to make three out our days and throughout a construction project and throughout, you know, all the work that we do.

 

00;06;24;08 - 00;06;28;18

Speaker

And it.

 

00;06;28;20 - 00;06;33;14

Speaker

And I think our.

 

00;06;33;17 - 00;06;49;22

Speaker

I mean, it's, it's our brand. It's part of our brand. Like, and I'm not someone that really likes branding or social media or.

 

00;06;49;24 - 00;07;11;23

Speaker

Anything that puts a shine that's not really there. I like that our brand is actually aligned with who we are. And that allows me to talk about it comfortably. Right. To to talk about it comfortably and to.

 

00;07;11;26 - 00;07;40;00

Speaker

Not feel uncomfortable asking. You know, we were just at final photos and the customer gave testimonials and it's going out on Instagram and it's going out on Facebook and like, like, I don't particularly like Facebook or Instagram or but we're not we're not saying anything. That's not true. And I think we're contributing to making. I don't know, to bringing authenticity to branding.

 

00;07;40;02 - 00;08;05;29

Speaker

And I yeah, I think our culture is reflected in that. And then I think it's reflected in all of our employees and our cut, like a lot of happy people. Yeah, it's a lot of happy people, driven, happy people all moving in the same direction. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. That wasn't the most clear answer, but I don't think there is one.

 

00;08;06;00 - 00;08;24;29

Speaker

Yeah, yeah. Like I think I might plan. I plan on asking everybody this question and maybe we'll find the answer eventually. But it's like there's a whole lot to it. Like what? I don't know. Like, what do I deem a happy company? I get well, what's culture? I don't know, a happy company. Okay, well, what makes a happy company?

 

00;08;25;02 - 00;08;45;25

Speaker

Having fun all the time. No, having fun some of the time. Definitely. Right. Being laser focused and goal oriented all of the time? No, but, you know, a lot of the time, you know, it's like a mixture of a bunch of things. Like, you know, I don't know what makes a healthy person. Well, it's not one thing.

 

00;08;45;25 - 00;09;16;03

Speaker

It's like five buckets, you know. Family and you know, faith, finance, fitness. Like there's like there's like 5 to 7 important things. Maybe we'll get to figure what those things are. When you first joined our company what was the culture. Then I was here. What was. Yeah. Not I mean not as good. Yeah. It sucked a lot, like, a lot of the time.

 

00;09;16;06 - 00;09;59;02

Speaker

I when I started, I stayed because I wanted to learn carpentry, and I saw an opportunity to learn well from you and from J. I didn't stay because I loved everyone that I worked with. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that came in time as we started adding better people. And I think as you started focusing on culture in, in hiring and decision making, but like, I mean, we had a string of nine lead carpenters come through.

 

00;09;59;04 - 00;10;30;06

Speaker

And not all bad guys, but all bad culture fits and all of them would be bad culture fits now. And we had a lot of carpenters who didn't care or only cared every other day or only showed up every other day, like, yeah, not bad, but not, not nearly as good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you were here from kind of like not the beginning.

 

00;10;30;07 - 00;10;56;06

Speaker

You know, Bob started the company many years ago, but, you know, you saw it, you kind of saw it at, I don't know, a different. It was just a different thing. It's a different company. Yeah, yeah. I tell people that when we hire them that, you know, Bob started the company 40 years ago, but this form really emerged over the last five years or so.

 

00;10;56;09 - 00;11;21;03

Speaker

Yeah. Yeah. So culture man. Yeah. Yeah, it's all culture. Yeah. And culture is not everything. But I just think without it, I don't know how to run a business without it. How do you get somebody to, you know, do something to help you if they don't like you? Or how do you get someone to follow a new process if they don't respect the company's values or or if they're not established at all?

 

00;11;21;04 - 00;11;45;19

Speaker

Yeah. I mean, it's why construction sucks. Yeah, yeah, it's why it's why construction. Because it's hard to begin with. It's very hard to begin with. And then there's so many companies that don't understand even the basics of like, just be nice to people and should do the things you, you say you're going to do. And if you're not going to do them, say you're not going to do them.

 

00;11;45;19 - 00;12;16;01

Speaker

And and just the basics of how to treat people. And it's why I mean, we get people like employees that come in from other companies and they have just horror stories. I mean, horror stories. So, yeah, what was the question? I don't remember, I remember why do you think it's important? What do you think company culture is important in remodeling?

 

00;12;16;03 - 00;12;20;02

Speaker

Because it's it's.

 

00;12;20;04 - 00;12;47;27

Speaker

For a lot of reasons. It's it's just so stressful and hard and unexpected things happen all the time. And you need, you need to have a baseline of how you treat each other and treat and treat your customers. And then also because you're in people's homes. So to do it well and to do it in a way that people will want you back after you're done, will want you to finish the project or whatever, or will like you when it's done.

 

00;12;48;00 - 00;13;14;01

Speaker

You have to know how to treat, to treat people, and you have to be like, it's like it's like having a roommate or like or, you know, we're living with people for, for three months, four months. And they you can fake who you are for a day or a phone call or a, a week, maybe a month, but like, they'll see who you are over four months.

 

00;13;14;03 - 00;13;31;04

Speaker

They'll see who you are. They'll see how you act every day. And and so if if the culture is not there, then you're only going to be able to fake it for a little bit. And then and then they'll see it. And.

 

00;13;31;06 - 00;13;58;04

Speaker

That's why our customers love us, is because they get to know. They get to know us by the end of the project. And and not just the really nice salesman. Right. The really nice salesman, the really nice project manager, the really nice estimator, the really nice lead carpenter, the really nice laborer, everybody like, so they see who we are in all of our people.

 

00;13;58;07 - 00;14;12;19

Speaker

And I think our culture and the set of expectations that we've established, it brings out people's best selves. And.

 

00;14;12;22 - 00;14;41;14

Speaker

It's important in remodeling because then our customers see everybody is best self. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like and and we keep getting better. Also because, because growth and self-improvement and learning and nerding out over carpentry is like really ingrained in our culture at this point too. So all of our guys constantly want to learn. They constantly on their own.

 

00;14;41;14 - 00;15;08;22

Speaker

And it's just an established behavior. And they they know that it will lead to good things. Right? Right. They've seen that it leads to good things and they've all embraced that. And we hire for for that. We hire hungry people. But that means that our carpentry is just better and better and better and better constantly. And we're looking for new and better ways to do things, whatever the thing is, but constantly promoting, promoting from within.

 

00;15;08;23 - 00;15;32;22

Speaker

Like that's what you're saying. Like when you say people are seeing it, right, like they're seeing the reason why they should apply themselves and, you know, and stretch and reach. And I think what we're skipping over there is that promoting from within his is a major part of our culture, which is not systematized. Well, he's not yet. But like that's one thing that is right.

 

00;15;32;24 - 00;16;05;11

Speaker

It's a it's a preference. That's a strong preference. And part of the reason is because you, like, someone from outside, hasn't come up in our cult like they don't they don't know it yet, so they don't know how to if they're moving into a position of, of leadership, they, they won't be in in lockstep with all the ways that we operate and all the ways that our, our culture, I don't know, presents itself or shows itself.

 

00;16;05;11 - 00;16;42;10

Speaker

So, yeah, I think, I think and, and then everyone who's, who's coming up, all the carpenter, like all the carpenters, all the estimate, like everybody, they see that then also so that that's an important part that reinforces kind of the, the, the cycle of it. Yeah. We have one of our, one of our carpenters coming in for an interview for an estimating position tomorrow, you know, and that guy was not thinking about this as being an opportunity.

 

00;16;42;10 - 00;16;59;27

Speaker

And and maybe it doesn't work out. Maybe it but like the thing that we said with him was like, we're going to give this a try. You know, he wasn't even thinking about this. Like, and it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity to get your foot in the office and grow and perhaps get into sales one day or this or that.

 

00;17;00;06 - 00;17;23;22

Speaker

We're always experimenting with people with their potential. You know, our job is to is to put people in places where they can most quickly find their potential. Right, right. And, you know, and I think that there are some nerves there where he's like a little nervous about like, oh, well, what happens if I'm not good at estimating or if I'm not fit for the office?

 

00;17;23;23 - 00;17;44;18

Speaker

And it was an easy answer. It's like there's like three dudes before you that that happened to you, and they're out in the field with you. Yeah, they preferred to be out in the field for whatever reason and no harm, no foul, you know? Yeah. Just go back to things as normal. Yep. You know, we've we've done that many times.

 

00;17;44;20 - 00;18;23;21

Speaker

So. Yeah. Yeah. Promoting from within. It's an important, important piece. And, and likewise like the same goes for opportunities in the field. We let young carpenters, like, stretch their wings, try new things. We look for opportunities like if a guy is working on kitchen cabinets, I'm going to schedule him to, to, depending on where he's at, maybe it's mudroom cabinets and he's doing them right, or maybe he's at the point where like, all right, let's let him try a kitchen on his own.

 

00;18;23;23 - 00;18;43;13

Speaker

One of the, one of the our newest lead carpenter. You know, he learned fast, and he wasn't here that long before he installed a kitchen on his own. And he made a couple of mistakes, but were okay with that because he's learning. And, you know, one kitchen later, we have we now have a new carpenter who can install whole kitchen on his own.

 

00;18;43;13 - 00;18;50;08

Speaker

Right. And when I talk to.

 

00;18;50;10 - 00;19;21;16

Speaker

Carpenters from other companies or the, the, you know, project managers or whatever position from other like it's not really there. That's not, that's that's not there. There's a ceiling and like, you make a mistake and all of a sudden you're not given the opportunity to do that work anymore, and now you're just doing punch list stuff and you're doing punch list stuff for ever.

 

00;19;21;19 - 00;19;42;11

Speaker

Right? Right. Or for two years before you get another, another shot. And it's like here, as long as you're not making the same mistake, as long as you're learning from the mistake, it it's it's okay. Well, like, we'll fix it. We can. Whatever the problem is, we can we can fix it. It's not the problem is not that big a problem, right?

 

00;19;42;12 - 00;20;09;16

Speaker

It's so much more valuable to us, to the carpenter, to the customer, to have more, better carpenters. And you only get that if the guys are learning and growing. Yeah. And with frequent feedback. Right. Why do you think like what what what unique challenges do we face in this industry in terms of like building a culture like ours?

 

00;20;09;20 - 00;20;34;09

Speaker

Like, you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, I think initially finding guys that fit it. Yeah, right. I think at this point it's like it's a little bit self-perpetuating, like it, it it's operating on its own now, and there's so many people that are reinforcing it that, that it pulls it pulls like people. Yeah, exactly. It pulls like minded people.

 

00;20;34;09 - 00;21;04;19

Speaker

And then it also pulls people's minds. So if they're not there, some like some some people adopt or adapt to it. Right. Yeah. I think there's a lot of people that, that a lot of worn out, weary or grumpy or negative people in this industry. And so I think early on, the biggest challenge was just finding the people and then and then keeping them.

 

00;21;04;21 - 00;21;32;10

Speaker

And I think, I think as you were building it, that's probably why you were kind of hesitant to give really direct feedback, especially to like, people you really liked and wanted to keep. Right, exactly. Like, yeah, no, we want everyone to be nice so the good people stay, right? Right. Yep. Yeah. And that, that was hard to establish.

 

00;21;32;12 - 00;22;01;07

Speaker

But it's it's established now. Yeah. No, I know it is. And it feels. Well, it feels like the timing is perfect. You know, we're taking on bigger and bigger projects. We got a lot going on. There's been a lot of growth. And I just think that yeah, everything fell into place at once. You know, you taking on ops a year before we really grew you know like having that established, having the relationship.

 

00;22;01;08 - 00;22;20;08

Speaker

Like I remember when you first started in your position, like the one thing I talked to you about most was like how important it was to get the respect of the field crew. Yeah, that was like. Like without that, you really don't have much, you know? And you did it in your own way, different than than I did it.

 

00;22;20;08 - 00;22;38;14

Speaker

But, and we didn't plan this. We didn't plan, like, Eric's going to be good cop, and then JP's going to become, you know, but. And not that you're bad cop. You're, you know, you the guys love you. They they truly do. And I know that, you know that. But it wasn't planned. It just worked out that way.

 

00;22;38;14 - 00;23;05;02

Speaker

And I think I said this on the last episode with Bob, but like, it's a Steve Jobs quote, like, it's hard to connect the dots looking forward, but it's easy to connect them looking back. And it's like, it's just nice to see that everything really worked out in our favor as far as timing goes. And now at this point, you know, you still hear a lot of people say like, it's tough to like, you can't find any good help out there, right?

 

00;23;05;04 - 00;23;27;08

Speaker

I hear that all the time. And I get a little uncomfortable when I'm asked that question like, oh, do you have trouble finding good help? I can't, you know, and it's kind of like, I almost don't want to tell them like, no, we're we're fine. Yeah. We're great. Like people come in into our pretty building and they're greeted by ten friendly faces and they're treated well.

 

00;23;27;10 - 00;23;49;05

Speaker

And, you know, onboarding is a yeah, it's an important part of culture. And then we start to set clear like, yeah, this is what's expected of you. These are the things. And like you don't like listen it's still construction like everyone's you're gonna have to dig a hole or you're going to have to like like there's going to be there's going to there's 95 degree days.

 

00;23;49;07 - 00;24;14;05

Speaker

There's there's 20 degree days. But we're not going to be dicks. Yeah. Like we're like, no one's going to be a dick. Yeah. And if they are, I'm going to talk to them. Right, right. Or someone will. Right. Or someone else in the field will. Yeah. It, I've run into that. I can't find any good help.

 

00;24;14;05 - 00;24;38;27

Speaker

I can't find any good help. And I've. I've run into like. Well, how do you manage, like, crew guys that, like, you can't be everywhere. How do you. And I'm like, I, I really like they manage them. Like they just do good work. They all like doing good work. And we make sure that we reward them when they, when they when they do it and when when they're doing better, like when they're doing better work.

 

00;24;38;29 - 00;25;10;00

Speaker

Like I hate when a guy asked me for a raise and I find out that he's owed one, right. I hate when when when a guy asked me for a raise and I go talk to the leads and they all say, yeah, he probably really should be there, I screwed up. Yep. Like I screwed up because, yeah, the whole thing relies on us making sure we identify when when people have hit that next level and and then getting them, getting them compensated for it because they did the work, they did all the things we asked them to do.

 

00;25;10;06 - 00;25;36;20

Speaker

Yeah. You mentioned like the, the the guy that says to you, how do you manage all those people? Right. And the real answer is levels of leadership, right? Right. Like you are technically, you know, you're leading the seven lead carpenters, right? And then they lead the, you know, the 3 to 6 people on their job site, you know, which varies.

 

00;25;36;21 - 00;25;51;25

Speaker

Right, right. But, you know, and then you talked about, I think you had mentioned something about, you know, nobody's going to be a dick to you, right? Right. You're the first person to curse on the podcast, by the way.

 

00;25;51;28 - 00;26;14;10

Speaker

So we're just going to let it fly now. But we're reading. We're reading in our leadership. You know, we meet once a week, right? We go over leadership and and it's just us in the lead, all the leaders in the company. And we started a book club and now we're reading Energy Bus, which is all about energy, you know, and I think that that's that's how right.

 

00;26;14;11 - 00;26;37;02

Speaker

Like we spend a lot of time talking with the people that are in charge of the people that that guy's wondering how we're, you know, and we gain I hate buying I got to find a better word for that commitment or something like the lead carpenters like their job. It's hard. But who doesn't want a hard job? Yeah, yeah, it's hard.

 

00;26;37;02 - 00;27;07;18

Speaker

And it's got challenges. And it's like leadership is can be brutal if you find yourself behind. Yeah. So that's really the answer to his question. I also want to say, man, have I got some side. I looked when I've talked about our the book club at our construction company. Yeah, I've been talking because I've been I've been like, you know, talking about I'm reading this book, I'm reading that book and and oh, where are you reading that?

 

00;27;07;19 - 00;27;36;23

Speaker

Oh, no, my company book club. And they're like, yeah, yeah. But I, I mean, everybody's reading or listening anyway. Yeah. And I think it's great. I just think it's great, you know, and I'm glad that the, the lead carpenters and, you know, you and me, like, I'm glad that we all are doing this because, I don't know.

 

00;27;36;26 - 00;27;57;08

Speaker

There's so much to learn. There's so much to learn. And like, I don't know, I'm just really glad that we're doing it and who knows what we'll read next, you know? But, Yeah, I'm proud of it, man. We definitely bring a unique spin to to construction. You know, we are, you know, so that's kind of another thing like, I don't know.

 

00;27;57;09 - 00;28;14;01

Speaker

Don't be afraid to have wacky ideas like a book club. You know, my mother has a book club and my sister has a book club. Yeah. I never had a book club, you know, because I don't know. I'm a rough, tough dude in construction. Yeah, sure you are, but.

 

00;28;14;03 - 00;28;29;11

Speaker

Let's see, how does how does how does culture influence the way that we respond to, like, problems? Because you don't hear about all of them, you know. What do you think about that?

 

00;28;29;14 - 00;28;34;10

Speaker

I.

 

00;28;34;12 - 00;28;58;14

Speaker

Well, I think I think that varies by the type of problem that it is. Right. I think we have firmly established in our culture that if a guy makes a mistake, we we don't come down hard on him. We if it if it's a significant mistake, we have a conversation. Right. If it's a repeated mistake, we have a conversation.

 

00;28;58;16 - 00;29;21;14

Speaker

But if it's a if it's a I don't know, he's installing a kitchen the first time and the cabinet needed to come out just a little bit more or like, or the crown seam wasn't perfect. You know, maybe we pointed out or we make sure that he sees it when it, when it if it comes up in punch list.

 

00;29;21;16 - 00;29;46;02

Speaker

But overall, if a new guy just installed a kitchen, we say good job. Next time. Make that seem. Make that seem perfect. And you know, then you're a carpenter too, right? Right, right. So like like phenomenal. And like, I know you've never done anything like this before, and I'm so happy, and you're so close to the edge of the next level.

 

00;29;46;02 - 00;30;13;03

Speaker

And one, two, three. These are the things that need to be need to be on point next time. So that. Yeah. So that I can give you that promotion or whatever it is the success ladder. Right. And so there like there are problems in there. Right. But let's let's look at the big picture here. What other kind of like if we make a mistake.

 

00;30;13;05 - 00;30;37;16

Speaker

You know, I think everyone knows that we handle it like honestly with the customer and we have a conversation with them and explain the mistake. I think that's pretty that's pretty universal across across the company core values. So honesty accountability and kindness accountability is one that I.

 

00;30;37;19 - 00;31;03;07

Speaker

Pride myself on being I think I don't know, I just the thought of dropping a ball and really maybe that's ownership. I don't know, they kind of cross cross over. But my favorite and kind I don't know, that's, that's in the hiring. Like we don't hire unkind right people. Right. Correct. So nobody really gets credit for that because that's a, you know, God given gift, I suppose.

 

00;31;03;07 - 00;31;28;29

Speaker

But honesty is probably my favorite one because and I talked about this with Bob last time. You know, when you're honest, you don't have to prepare. Like we encourage guys to show up who they are, exactly who you are. And like that's honesty too, right? Like, okay, I know that you think you're supposed to be rough and tough and rude and all these things because of your past experience in construction.

 

00;31;29;04 - 00;31;47;04

Speaker

I'm telling you, I need you to be exactly who you are, and I need you to be that way 100% of the time. Yeah. Even when there's a problem. And that is a gift in life, the way that we're talking right now is the same way. I would talk to my friends, talk to my, you know, my father in law, or it doesn't matter.

 

00;31;47;08 - 00;32;13;28

Speaker

I bring the same person everywhere I go. And that is a gift. You know, we just we just left a a project. The final photos right now, they're seeing me at the end of the project. Right. So I had to maintain that same personality that I had. And there we are. Now it's the end of that. But it was a weird one because there was a new client that wanted to see some old work.

 

00;32;13;28 - 00;32;33;27

Speaker

So we invited him, and there's a new client that just came out of sales and into your realm. Right? I didn't think about that until right now. Like in a lot of worlds, that's. Those are two different people, right? Yeah. Like the sales person at the end of the job and the sales person at the beginning of the job.

 

00;32;33;27 - 00;32;59;03

Speaker

And there I had two customers in both of those opposite things all in one room. Right. You know. Yeah, yeah. And it's just I don't know, I just I've always wanted to encourage that for everybody. Just be you be honest 100% of the time. It's exhausting to do anything else. Yeah, it's exhausting to do anything else. And and it makes problems so much harder to deal with ultimately.

 

00;32;59;04 - 00;33;28;09

Speaker

Like like maybe telling a lie gets you out of gets you out of a little problem here or there. But in the grand scheme, if that's your habit, man, it'll make everything so exhausting for you. Like, it makes it. It makes it too. It's why people burn out of the industry. Yeah. And it in that sense, I think our culture, when a problem arises, we just we don't have to think about what we're like.

 

00;33;28;11 - 00;33;43;21

Speaker

No, I'm going to go talk to the customer and explain what happened and what we're going to do to fix it. And so we already know we're going to be accountable. We already know we're going to be honest about it. We already know we're not going to be a dick to anyone involved. Right. That's the third time. All right.

 

00;33;43;22 - 00;34;05;22

Speaker

That's the last time. Three against one. I only did one. But likewise the way we're talking here, which is something you said a second ago, it's also the way you talk if there is a big problem. Sure. Right. Yeah. And you may there may be a little bit more sweat on your brow, but. Or mine or whoever's.

 

00;34;05;22 - 00;34;39;12

Speaker

But but it's it is the same. So something we never talk about or, I don't know, congratulate ourselves on doing. But nobody freaks out, right? Nobody ever freaks out. Right? For years. No, it doesn't matter. It could be your fault. It could be my fault. It could be some situation. Nobody, you know throws a tantrum ever. Yeah. Yep.

 

00;34;39;12 - 00;35;02;04

Speaker

That's true, you know? And that's great. And I don't know, for for, I guess for anybody listening that in a leader role, you know, keeping a staying staying flat is important where you, you are predictable. You know, I know I can go to my boss or whatever or my lead carpenter, I can I can go to him.

 

00;35;02;04 - 00;35;30;28

Speaker

I can tell him what happened. And I know exactly what I'll get. It'll be, it'll become and it'll be, you know, it won't be knee jerk reaction. Yeah. And and that that's, that's that's just so important. Like, because when there's a problem, when something's wrong, when something has gone wrong, that's when you need everybody to kick into gear and, and like, and ramp up to address whatever needs to be addressed and get us back on track.

 

00;35;30;29 - 00;35;54;15

Speaker

It's extra work to get us back on track. And if everybody suddenly tight and can't feels like they can't think or talk or say anything or they can't operate, yeah, well, they can't operate. Well, there's no there's no flow. There's no there's no creative thinking. There's just there's just anxiety. Yeah. Right. And so there's a lot of ways that that's a good question.

 

00;35;54;15 - 00;36;33;17

Speaker

There's a lot of ways that that our culture, helps us solve problems or shows itself. Yeah. When, when problems arise. Yeah. Yeah. So like if you were, if you were talking to another, whether it's a painter or a general contractor or a plumbing company, you know, let's say they have that typical construction culture. I'll just say toxic because we know that's just what it is.

 

00;36;33;19 - 00;36;48;21

Speaker

What, what what advice. And they said, hey, I want to fix this. What would you what would you tell them to do? Where would where would they start?

 

00;36;48;23 - 00;36;53;23

Speaker

I think.

 

00;36;53;26 - 00;37;20;06

Speaker

Identify your values. I think talk about your values taught like enforce it, like say, no, I don't want us to do it that way. I want us to be. I want us to be honest about it. I want like like live. Live by your values in running whatever company you're running. You can't just talk about them. You have you have to do you have to live them.

 

00;37;20;09 - 00;37;43;07

Speaker

What else would I say? I'm not allowed to curse again. Get rid of the less than nice people in your company. Yeah, I mean, I mean, or talk to them, see if they'll adjust, like, do right by them. But but you you can't build a strong culture with people who aren't willing to adapt it, right?

 

00;37;43;08 - 00;37;47;25

Speaker

You can't.

 

00;37;47;27 - 00;38;13;00

Speaker

Hire Nolan. Yeah. I tell people to hire Nolan all the time. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Great group. Really? Yeah. They have a good culture. Yeah, but. But like, so many, like, one person operations or small, small startup companies, like, there's so many of them in the industry because because it's a low startup cost. It's just high pain headaches to start up.

 

00;38;13;02 - 00;38;51;12

Speaker

But Adrian, I just told Adrian about Nolan and she started working with them I know that. Yeah, that was great news. Sydney is her. Yeah, yeah. Her coach. And like three other people that I'm trying to get to because I'm like, man, you just you're just not getting it. And I like, you're so close and you're good and you're smart and you're honest and you work so hard, but there's like like you keep saying you're going to do things and then you don't do them or you keep, you keep like I'll say, jerk, you're being a jerk to this person.

 

00;38;51;13 - 00;39;17;27

Speaker

Yeah. And yeah. And, just having smart people. Yeah. Smart people that, that, like, get feedback from other people. If you're running your own company because all your employees are scared to tell you true. Yeah. Like that's true to the culture. Like you, you have to be willing to listen and you have to make your employees comfortable telling you you have to.

 

00;39;18;00 - 00;39;43;11

Speaker

You know, I can speak to that person because I am that person, that what you have to be extremely critical and objective and honest with yourself. Yeah, I am gifted in these areas and I am falling short in these, you know, and it's a painful process to identify them and then even more painful process to fix them. Yeah.

 

00;39;43;12 - 00;40;28;23

Speaker

You know, but yeah, you the, the the and here's what I want to say. The owner of the company or the CEO or the they aren't necessarily the ones that are meant for fixing the culture or being the culture guy or whatever. Like I gave a talk one time over here in Horsham, and it was about company culture and, and my in closing, I basically said, like, you do not need to be very high up the ladder at all to change a company culture, but if all of a sudden you become the guy that says, no, no, no, come on guys, and you start lifting people up, but then you're accountable.

 

00;40;28;23 - 00;40;49;03

Speaker

Your hard worker, you're a fast learner. All these things, you're going to get attention from the people at the top and you are going to climb quickly. Yeah, you just will. I think that boy, if you could. 180 accompanies culture no matter the size, you are going to get recognized and you are going to move into a leadership position quickly.

 

00;40;49;04 - 00;41;11;04

Speaker

Yeah, because that's absolutely true. Because culture gets results. And, you know, I think that that's just inevitable in our industry. If, if like if you're a carpenter, you're a lead carpenter, you're running jobs, you're the guy that all the guys are wanting to work with. You're the guy that all the guys are working just a little bit harder for, right?

 

00;41;11;07 - 00;41;46;04

Speaker

That will show. It will show in 100,000 different, different little ways and everyone will notice. Yeah. And that I think I mean, I think that applies to any industry, any industry where, where you're leading a team anyway. A team of people, it your team will be noticed. If you put culture front and center, prioritize it and live by whatever, whatever the culture is that you're establishing, if you're living by it, it'll be noticed and people will buy in.

 

00;41;46;07 - 00;41;51;06

Speaker

Yeah, yeah, I think I think that's.

 

00;41;51;08 - 00;42;12;16

Speaker

Fundamentally I think that that's how you that's how you change your culture is be about it. Yeah. Be about it. And you mentioned values earlier like and living by those values. Now we're kind of getting back to the owner of the company or whatever. The guy that wants to fix the, you know, the plumbing company that's messed up.

 

00;42;12;19 - 00;42;41;26

Speaker

But you know, when we found our values, we just kind of like blurted them out and it was like, just say them. I was like, you know what? That's like kind of how I live my life. You know, I generally nice to everybody. I, I come across and, and I'm honest and I do what I say. And so it's not I don't have again, I don't have to like try to live by our values, you know, like kind of got lucky there too, right.

 

00;42;41;28 - 00;43;14;19

Speaker

You know, and and the standard really is in whoever, you know, whoever starts the culture or, or bangs that drum. Right. You know, so, so then, you know, I guess I really just have two other questions for you. Like, what are you most proud of with our company? And, you know, regarding culture specifically,

 

00;43;14;21 - 00;43;20;03

Speaker

One of my most proud of.

 

00;43;20;06 - 00;43;23;12

Speaker

I.

 

00;43;23;14 - 00;43;28;26

Speaker

I love.

 

00;43;28;28 - 00;43;50;29

Speaker

The, the how do I want to like we have so many young guys coming up so excited to learn carpentry. And they're learning it fast and faster and faster. And.

 

00;43;51;01 - 00;44;15;07

Speaker

I think and now I'm like, really just tooting my own horn here. But I think that I really wanted to instill that in the field crew when I took over. And I think it's there, and I love that. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I, I wish I could because at this point it's established in itself like it's, it's, it's on its own.

 

00;44;15;07 - 00;44;38;17

Speaker

And I really am only involved in a few conversations and then they take it from there. I wish I could be the one actually teaching them more often. Yeah, but but like, I'm, I'm the one that that shows the path and gives a push. But then other guys see the path and they're like, oh, well, there's the path.

 

00;44;38;18 - 00;44;54;08

Speaker

You know, I'm going to do that. I'm going to look at these plans at night and I'm going to, I'm going to YouTube how you do rafters and I'm going to like I'm going to show up and be be ready and ask to do the rafters on the next job. Yeah. And I think that that is happening more and more.

 

00;44;54;11 - 00;45;01;29

Speaker

And like I think.

 

00;45;02;02 - 00;45;23;06

Speaker

I became went from like labor to lead Carpenter in about two years. Dave went from laborer to lead carpenter in two years, like somebody's going to do it faster, I think I might know. Yeah, yeah. And and and then maybe. And then maybe more people do it faster. Yeah. And it's like the four minute mile, right? Yeah, yeah.

 

00;45;23;08 - 00;45;46;27

Speaker

And I started to have to make sure there's lead carpenter jobs for them like. Yeah. Yeah. Which is not easy to accomplish. Right. It's not easy to accomplish. The company has to grow to the point where we can we can support that. But I think that's the thing I think that's the thing that I'm most that I'm most proud of.

 

00;45;47;04 - 00;46;10;09

Speaker

That's an honest answer. I wasn't sure I didn't really think about what you'd say, but as it was coming out, I'm like that. That's a thought out answer. And I believe you because you are very good at and you know what? You wanted to make that change in the company. And I know that you wanted to, not because you told me, but because that's exactly what happened.

 

00;46;10;10 - 00;46;33;29

Speaker

Yeah. You made that change. You know, I think the first person I saw that with was probably Jose, who's now a lead carpenter, young guy, you know, and you saw the potential in him. And, you know, he is nobody in this company is as close to him as you are. You really took him under your wing as he was coming up.

 

00;46;33;29 - 00;46;57;14

Speaker

And that was, I think, the first guy. I was like, He's really he's really making a difference there with Joe, you know? And Joe did the work. Joe did the work. But yeah, but you you gathered the feedback, organized it, held on to it, delivered it. Right. Like it's not easy. Like you like Joe. Right. And that's not easy.

 

00;46;57;14 - 00;47;21;23

Speaker

And and, Yeah. You're you're really gifted at that. You really are. And I think everybody here knows it. So kudos because the company needed that, you know, and I know I thanked you for this before. So I'm uncomfortable. You can stop. Okay. Good. So what do you hope for in the future? What what are you so like here we are, right?

 

00;47;21;24 - 00;47;44;27

Speaker

I know, I know, in the morning when I visualize the the future of the company, I know what that looks like, but, like, what's what's your vision of the company over the next few years. Over the next. So over the next few years. Yeah. And you can, you can, you can name the years if you, if you want to stretch it to ten.

 

00;47;45;00 - 00;47;48;06

Speaker

Oh.

 

00;47;48;08 - 00;48;21;05

Speaker

I mean, if we're going 5 to 10 years, I, I want, I want more I want to be Wawa I want, I want more branches, I want like, oh, Tillman's moving into town. That's a good thing, right? Like. Like. Yeah. Like I've seen their jobs all over, you know, up near Hepburn. And now they're they're, Phoenixville or Delaware County, wherever it is.

 

00;48;21;07 - 00;48;54;13

Speaker

Right. I, I yeah, I want, I want that over, over ten years. And I want us to grow the people to do it. I want I want this to be a place where a young guy can come start hall in lumber and digging holes and whatever, whatever unfun work they have to do and can come up and they can spend their whole career here.

 

00;48;54;13 - 00;49;06;16

Speaker

And there's not a ceiling. Yeah, right. There's there's not a ceiling. They can take it as far as they can take it. And.

 

00;49;06;18 - 00;49;31;08

Speaker

To do that we have to grow. We have to grow. But that's that's what I want really are reasons are pretty damn close, Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've talked about it in the past, like I've always wanted to give. Like, we've talked about Tillman Builders University. I know, like, but like, that's it. Like what you just said.

 

00;49;31;09 - 00;50;17;15

Speaker

That's it. Right? Where it's like, I have one easy choice. I like carpentry, and, boy, if I'm lucky enough, I'll be, you know, considered over at Tillman, you know, and I and we do want to, you know, go nationwide with this, you know. And why. Well, because we we literally know that we're we have a well-intentioned kind of business model that is excellent towards its employees and therefore it the company excellently, treats its clients or serves its clients, you know, like the this is why we have happy customers and sorry, I don't mind saying it on the podcast.

 

00;50;17;16 - 00;50;48;03

Speaker

We're like 99% happy customers throughout the year, you know, and that's why it's because of the culture. It's because of the systems. It's because of our core values and our various mission. Yeah. And it works. It scales. Yeah. People want to work in a place like this. Smart people, good people, driven people want to work here. And we're seeing that more and more.

 

00;50;48;03 - 00;51;09;19

Speaker

And like, I just I mean, I look at many of our young guys and like, in ten years, what are you going to be like? I mean, you're going to be great. Like you're going to be great. You're going to be ready to handle so much. And you just changed their life. They wouldn't have seen that. They did.

 

00;51;09;26 - 00;51;31;06

Speaker

They like. Yeah. But showing them. Yeah. You don't know that this is possible for you. Yeah but it is. But but like you're not going to be building these jobs. You're going to be selling these jobs. Right? Right. You're like you're going to be. Yeah. Yeah. The manager the general manager at the Phoenixville branch. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

 

00;51;31;07 - 00;51;59;05

Speaker

Cool. Yeah. That's what I want. And profit sharing. That's the only time you leaned into your mic. It your mic was muted I'm sorry. Yeah. Sounds great. It's a culture fit. Yeah. You know it all fits the culture. Well JP you know you're beast at your job. I feel blessed that I know you I, you and I are very different in many ways, but we have a great relationship.

 

00;51;59;05 - 00;52;24;11

Speaker

I can give you feedback like nobody else in this company. I appreciate all that you do. You've, you've you've believed the vision from very early on. And you always told me that. And here we are, you know, and I couldn't be more grateful for your help. So likewise, thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me, everybody.

 

00;52;24;14 - 00;52;44;07

Speaker

Until next time, stay positive, be nice and step out of your comfort zone by good.