Eric Tilghman: Hi everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Built Different Podcast. I’m Eric Tilghman, your host, the CEO of Tilghman Builders. Our mission in business and for this podcast is to change the construction industry and really just what it means to be a contractor.

So today, I’ll introduce you guys to Shawn Fuerst, our Project Closer. Hi, Shawn. Welcome to the podcast.

Shawn Fuerst: Hey, how you doing, Eric? Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Eric Tilghman: Yeah, it’s a pleasure to have you. I’ve actually been really looking forward to this podcast. I spoon-fed the idea to you maybe only the past month, but I’ve been thinking about it for like a year.

Shawn Fuerst: Yeah. I do remember that, but here we are.

Eric Tilghman: Here we are. So, first off, in construction, substance abuse is just in our industry, probably more than most industries. Probably not all, but I think Wall Street guys drink a lot, and I don’t really know much about other industries, but I know that it’s pretty wild in our industry.

So today we’re going to talk about substance abuse, but more importantly, we’re going to talk about recovery. We’re going to talk about a success story here, which is why Shawn’s with us today. Hopefully we send a message to somebody who’s struggling, or maybe it’s a business owner that could help somebody or give somebody a second chance, somebody who’s in need. Because sometimes that’s kind of what the doctor prescribes at just the right time.

Anyway, Shawn, I just want to let you know, and you already know this, but you inspire me. I love your story. I’m happy to be a very small part of it. You’re the main character, but I just think it’s cool what you’ve done, and I’ve enjoyed watching you do it.

Shawn Fuerst: Thanks, man. I appreciate that. It’s a little bit of a surprise to me too, but I’m glad to be where I’m at.

Eric Tilghman: Good. I’m glad you’re there too. So we first met on the phone, right? You called me. You were in a halfway house. You didn’t have a license. You didn’t have a car. Do you remember how long you were sober when we talked?

Shawn Fuerst: Yes. Probably about 45 days.

Eric Tilghman: That’s right.

Shawn Fuerst: I remember being open and honest with you. I felt like just with the quick conversation we had, I could be open and honest with you. And you gave me some good feedback. I mean, I gave you a lot of red flags. Forty-five days sober, I don’t have a license.

Eric Tilghman: Don’t have a car.

Shawn Fuerst: Don’t have a car, yes, correct. And you said, “Well, reach out in a couple of months when you have some more time under your belt and you have a vehicle, and we can go from there.”

Eric Tilghman: Yeah. And then you did.

Shawn Fuerst: I did.

Eric Tilghman: I don’t know how many months later. Maybe it was...

Shawn Fuerst: It wasn’t much. It was probably about two and a half months later.

Eric Tilghman: Okay. And we hired you, right?

Shawn Fuerst: Correct. Yes.

Eric Tilghman: How long have you been with the company?

Shawn Fuerst: I think I’m right around two years at the end of June.

Eric Tilghman: Sick. Okay, cool. When we hired you, it wasn’t long before we had some red flags in the beginning. A couple months in, they were still kind of lingering. I just remember you were sleeping through your alarm clock, not showing up on time, maybe not showing up at all. And I remember JP and I talking a lot about it like, “Hey, we’re having an issue. Shawn’s not this or not that.”

There’s a lot of debate about what to do when that type of thing is happening. We had to have had conversations with you around that time, right?

Shawn Fuerst: Gary did. I didn’t really have any conversations with anyone directly about it. To be honest, when I first started, I couldn’t find my place. I think I was in early recovery, still not comfortable with myself, so it was hard for me to engage fully with the company at first. That was my own issue.

But I also saw that, because I didn’t understand how your process worked, I thought, “Well, no one’s paying attention.” They weren’t giving me responsibility. That’s how I felt at first. And I gave them reason not to give me responsibility because I showed up late or showed up when I wanted to.

That went on for maybe a month or two. To be honest, I wasn’t really doing anything with my recovery. I couldn’t be a good employee because of that. I had just gotten out of the halfway house, and I moved back home, and I didn’t really do any work on myself.

But then I got a stern warning from Gary. He told me the situation, and it lit a little fire under me. Well, a big fire under me.

I saw a lot at that point in time. I liked everything about this company, especially from the first day I walked in here, seeing the affirmations on the wall, how detailed you were with your calendars, and the growth that you presented. You had it detailed, outlined for each position. Like, “This is where you need to be to get to here. This is what you need to do.” A lot of companies don’t do that. They don’t give you that kind of vision.

So when Gary told me that, I was like, “I better get my things together, because this is an opportunity and a blessing. Don’t take it for granted.”

Eric Tilghman: Well, what happened next is you turned your shit around. It’s hard to turn your life around. It’s hard to start, because you don’t get recognized right away. Being good for a day is hard. Being good, and then you’re a month in, and you’re like, “I deserve a lot of credit. I have not been late to work for a whole month straight.”

It requires faith to go through that kind of journey. I’m not talking about the sobriety journey. I’m talking about improving your life in any way, because people really don’t see what you’re doing in private. They’re not seeing the effort that you’re putting in and all that kind of stuff.

So you were consistent. You really started bucking up and getting more involved with the team, it felt like.

Shawn Fuerst: Sure. The fact that Gary made me feel like he saw something in me really gave me a little hope, because for the first few months of sobriety, I definitely was not feeling that. I had just gotten back on my feet, and there were a lot of emotions I was dealing with, insecurities and things of that nature. The fact that he saw something in me helped me acknowledge, “Okay, maybe I’m not as bad as I thought I was. Maybe I can do more. Maybe I can be better.”

Eric Tilghman: Cool. Well, everybody, basically what happened after that is Shawn killed it. He just kept moving up. We were getting good feedback. We noticed Shawn was a good communicator. Then we promoted you to such a surprising position from where you had started with us.

Shawn is our Project Closer, responsible for punch list and warranty for all of our projects. It is absolutely a full-time job. We didn’t have that position prior to you. You’ve been doing a great job at it, and it’s client-facing. It’s scheduling, it’s emailing, it is complicated. And you’re hands-on too, still, right?

Shawn Fuerst: Yes, when I have the time to do that. But yes, I enjoy it, man. Not a lot of people would, but I enjoy fixing problems. For the most part, I always fixed problems, but I would never fix myself. I think the only reason I was capable of being in the position that I am now is because I did some work on myself. I continue to do work on myself on a daily basis. And I know that if I don’t continue to do work on myself, I’m not going to continue to do what I’m doing for this company as well. I’m not going to be able to be that employee.

Eric Tilghman: All good things require maintenance. If it doesn’t require maintenance, it’s probably not that good.

Shawn Fuerst: I’ll tell you what though. I always wanted to do work on myself, but I was always scared or lazy. And now that I have, and now that I have some kind of higher power in my life, there’s such a freedom with that. I don’t walk around scared anymore. I don’t worry about my past. I don’t worry about the future. I just try my best to be in the now as much as I can.

Eric Tilghman: That’s great. That’s a gift. To not walk around with fear is a major gift, because fear and worry is brutal.

Shawn Fuerst: Yeah. Having God in your life really helps with that. For the longest time, I would see it in other people, but I wouldn’t put any of the work in. For me, I got to such a place of hopelessness that I realized I don’t have the solution to my life. I cannot manage my own life. I’ve come to that conclusion. I was presented with a 12-step program, and they said, “This is how it works,” and it works.

Eric Tilghman: Yeah. And part of that is having trust in a higher power of your own understanding, right?

Shawn Fuerst: Right. Absolutely. It doesn’t have to be God. Going through the steps is dealing with your past, figuring out what you’re scared of, figuring out your character defects and your shortcomings, and being able to know when they are coming up and knowing how to address them and deal with them, as well as making amends for your past. And then once you do all that, you get into service. You help other people. That’s what I enjoy most, and that’s what keeps me going.

Eric Tilghman: That’s how I see this podcast today. I said it in the beginning, but this message is important for somebody, and I hope we get into the ears of that person. Or maybe it’s for the business owner who runs a company. Maybe they’re not coming across the issue now, but maybe in a year they’ve got a great guy and they’re about to give up on him, whatever it is.

So what was life like before you came here? What were you doing for work before you got here?

Shawn Fuerst: Right before? I was doing my own business. I had an LLC. I mainly did small things that I could figure out on YouTube, or building fences or chicken coops or whatever it was. I just figured it out. I did painting, stuff like that. I would make some money and then I wouldn’t work. I need structure in my life for me to be successful. I definitely need structure.

Eric Tilghman: Me too, by the way. One hundred percent.

Shawn Fuerst: That’s the other thing. I wasn’t very employable before. Every job I ever had, I’d do good at, but I’d always find some way to become defiant or stretch the boundaries. I was just never in control of my own life, so it never worked out.

Eric Tilghman: What about mentally? Where were you mentally? How would you have described yourself?

Shawn Fuerst: Definitely depressed. I always try to keep a good attitude. I always try to have a lot of optimism, but before I started working here, I was probably at my darkest I’ve ever been. And that’s where I needed to be to be where I’m at today.

For the longest time, I’d always find reasons not to do any work on myself, and it just dragged out for so long. I got so bad at living life. I don’t know how to explain this, but I failed so many times that I finally had to be like, “Okay, I don’t have the answer to this.”

And I know that I can live better knowing that I can put all of my faith into a higher power and everything’s going to be okay.

Eric Tilghman: Trust helps. Did you think that things could get better? We talked on the phone, you got off that call. Did you think things could get better for you?

Shawn Fuerst: It was always in the back of my mind. Absolutely. It was in my hometown. And honestly, from our conversation, because I was just getting back on my feet, it definitely gave me hope. I also got in my own way in the first couple of months of working here.

There was a point in time when I was sitting on my couch and I realized that I was just going to be a degenerate alcoholic for the rest of my life. And I honestly was like, “I don’t want to do this anymore,” but I didn’t know how to change. It was a pretty sad place to be. I kind of accepted that that was who I was going to be.

But through treatment, through support, through AA, through support with a culture like this, and a lot of good people, I was able to turn it around.

Eric Tilghman: Was it hard for you to hear the answer, “No, come back to me in a few months”? Did that kind of suck?

Shawn Fuerst: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. Instantly. I’m someone that wants what I want, and I want it right away. Honestly, I probably was in that mindset at that point in time because I was ego-driven. Everything I did was self, self, self, self, self.

And yeah, you telling me no, as someone who always pushes boundaries and always finds a way around it, my first reaction was definitely like, “What the fuck?”

Eric Tilghman: What was causing the lateness and the inconsistencies? You just weren’t really bought in. You actually kind of joined the wrong team, right? You said yourself, “I’m always looking for the workaround.” You couldn’t do that on this team because there’s a team that cares about the team, and they kind of rat you out.

Shawn Fuerst: Yeah, of course. That’s the other part about me. I tend to stay on the outside until I get very comfortable with my surroundings. I’m an introvert until I’m an extrovert. I was in my own way. I created self-sabotage. Self-sabotaging is really what I was doing.

I’m glad that everything happens for a reason. When I was with Gary, I think you guys were going to fire me. I had only been with Gary for maybe a week, and he saw that in that short period of time. If I wasn’t with Gary, I don’t think I’d be sitting here right now.

Eric Tilghman: Interesting. Uncle Gary. So it was that conversation you had with him that made it click? Was that a line in the sand?

Shawn Fuerst: Yes, guaranteed. It was, because I had also been kicking myself for not showing up or showing up late, and I was completely dependent on myself. I knew that what I was doing wasn’t working.

He literally said, “Listen, I like you. You do good work. You definitely care a lot. But if you don’t show up on time for the next five days, at least, you’re definitely canned.”

And I was like, “Okay, that’s what I needed to hear.”

Eric Tilghman: Behind the scenes, JP and I were talking with Gary. We basically were like, “Who’s the best one to get through to him?” It was a decision. We were like, “Gary, this makes the most sense for you.”

Also, with the feedback, we didn’t want to sabotage any relationships by letting you know that we knew. It was important to us. We wanted it to work out, and the relationships had to stay intact.

Shawn Fuerst: When I was first here, I didn’t realize how much you guys talked about the field crew. Even in the first couple months, I didn’t understand that there were leadership meetings and there were things they talked about with the field crew and operations.

Eric Tilghman: You thought you were out there in the wild.

Shawn Fuerst: Pretty much, yeah.

Eric Tilghman: Yeah, we were watching. Or just listening. Kindness without accountability is enabling. Accountability without kindness just pushes people away. We tried to hold both.

Shawn Fuerst: Yeah. If you hadn’t, it just wouldn’t have worked.

Eric Tilghman: All right. Well, the turning point. When did you start feeling proud of yourself again? It wasn’t that day. That day was embarrassing.

Shawn Fuerst: No. I was still full of fear at that point in time. I was fear-driven. To be honest, it probably wasn’t until March. I was celebrating my one year of sobriety, and I went to a meeting. There was another woman there who had the same sobriety date as me. I’m sitting there watching her, and she’s happy, joyful, all this. She’s got a year, and I’m just sitting there still miserable.

I knew why I was miserable. The reason I was miserable is because I showed up to these rooms, and I did nothing for myself. I was just holding on, white-knuckling it. At that point, that’s when I asked for a sponsor. I was so scared that I was going to return to where I was that I took that leap of faith and asked someone to sponsor me. They took me through the steps, and it was the greatest decision I’ve ever made.

Eric Tilghman: Wow, that’s crazy, man. Took you a year to get there.

Shawn Fuerst: Yeah, I’m very stubborn. I really am grateful for where I’m at today, and I really value my recovery. I’ve done a lot of things in my past that I wish I hadn’t, but they happened. Today I just do my best to be a better person, whatever I can do each day.

We didn’t talk about this, but your core values were very attractive to me from the beginning because that is a lot of the same core values as recovery: honesty, accountability, kindness. For me, kindness is the most important one. If I’m kind to myself, I can be kind to everybody else. That’s how I kind of look at life today. Just be kind to myself, and then I can be kind to everybody else.

That’s the thing. I was never kind to myself. I was always my biggest critic. I always tortured myself a lot.

Eric Tilghman: Yeah, I torture myself too. That sucks. It’s only been the last maybe year that I cooled it with that. It still creeps in sometimes. I’m still hard on myself. I’m just not mean to myself. I hold myself to a certain standard, absolutely. But if I ever find myself sitting on the couch for too long, I get all, “You should be doing more.”

It’s like I just did an episode on hustle culture, but it’s in me to hustle. Sometimes it’s like, “No, just sit here and relax. Cool it.”

How about the team? How much did the team help you through all of this? It feels like it was a gift from your higher power to join a team like ours because it’s undeniable. We care about each other, period.

Shawn Fuerst: Absolutely. There’s not another place I’ve worked like that. The culture, I don’t know how you did it, but every single person that you hired was a good person. Everyone likes each other. We don’t have confrontation or arguments. It really makes it a safe place to work.

Where I grew up, whenever I did construction, the first supervisor was just belittling me or telling me I was stupid or whatever it may be. It was never a fun experience. But this job is fun. We all have each other’s backs.

Eric Tilghman: It was probably a good time in your life to be surrounded by good dudes. There’s no gossip, there’s no drama.

Shawn Fuerst: Correct. And to be honest, that was holding me together up until I got a sponsor. That family culture, that support was definitely doing it, but it could only last so long. I really had to do the work for myself.

Eric Tilghman: How about when the team started trusting you? We talked about the lonely walk, right? You’re like, “Man, I haven’t been late for four months. When are they going to believe me?”

Shawn Fuerst: Sure. There was partly that, and then there was part of me that was like, “This is awkward. They trust me.” A lot of my life, I’ve always felt that I was a good person, but I ended up doing messed up things. So I ended up not really being that good person that I envisioned myself to be.

I realized that I suffer from a substance abuse disorder, and because of that, it always had control of me in a way. Now I have a solution for that, so now I can be a better person, the person I always thought I was.

Eric Tilghman: You’re a good person, man. You have a good moral compass, and you care. I’m glad I got to meet that version. I’m glad I didn’t know the other version. I just knew this guy.

We’re talking to ourselves all day long, right? We’re analyzing our behaviors, especially when you’re on a journey of self-betterment. Eventually, there’s that point where you’re like, “I think I’m doing really good. I think I’m becoming somebody new now.” Did you go through something similar? Before the guys trusted you, was there a frustrating period in between?

Shawn Fuerst: Everyone else saw it in me before I did. There are still days where I’m like, “Are you sure you’re talking about the right person?”

Eric Tilghman: We’re really similar. People will say things to you like, “Wow, you’re really natural at that. You’re really good at that.” Whatever that thing is. And there’s still part of you that doesn’t believe them. Like, “Are you lying to me?” The whole room could say the same thing, and you’re still like, “Did you guys talk about this beforehand?”

So then I don’t remember when this was, but eventually we came to you and we offered you the role of Project Closer. Big step. You weren’t the most skilled guy in the field.

Shawn Fuerst: No, not at all. I was skilled in different ways.

Eric Tilghman: Exactly. In ways that were valuable to the role. How did that feel to be offered that, and did you feel like you were ready for it?

Shawn Fuerst: I was ready for more. I definitely thought it was up my alley. It’s like running a business within a business. A lot of handyman kind of stuff. I wasn’t overly skilled at framing or any structural stuff, but I’ve always had high confidence with anything that is put in front of me.

You might think I’m good at this job, and I think I might be good at this job, but I think whatever you put in front of me, I’m going to be good at it. My dad always told me, “You can be whatever you want to be in life,” and I’ve always held that mindset. Even when I have doubt in myself here or there, at the end of the day, I’m very competitive, and I think I’m competent enough that I can do whatever it is I need to do. Now, I might not be able to be an NFL football player tomorrow, but anything within my reach, yeah.

Eric Tilghman: Are you competitive with yourself or with others?

Shawn Fuerst: Probably with others. I am competitive in general, but mainly with others.

Eric Tilghman: So now you have this role. What’s your favorite part of your job as the Project Closer?

Shawn Fuerst: You definitely hit on it. It’s the freedom. It’s the ability to make decisions, the ability to have ideas, and that you guys trust me to do what it is I need to do. That made me feel like I’ve gotten to a place that I knew I always could, but always fell short. I’m grateful for that.

Eric Tilghman: When you backpedaled there, you didn’t want to say that you made it, but I think I know what you mean. It’s like, “Finally, I’m an adult, and I’m being trusted.” Is that kind of what you mean?

Shawn Fuerst: Yes. That, and my whole life I always thought I could do things, but I always fell short, whether it was being afraid of success or afraid of failure.

I had this one place I worked at, and they were about to give me a promotion. The next day, I came in three hours late, hungover, and they were like, “You’re doing great, but obviously I can’t reward you with a promotion.” That’s what I would do my whole life: self-sabotage in every single way.

Now, where we’re at, it’s like I’m finally not self-sabotaging, and these people still think highly of me.

Eric Tilghman: It’s good. You leveled up, man. You raised your floor, what you deem to be acceptable in your life.

Shawn Fuerst: Absolutely. And I think this place really helped with that because I’m not content where I’m at. I like what I do, but I always want more.

Eric Tilghman: I’ll be honest, and I don’t know if I was planning on telling you this, but we saw you improving. We saw it, and we heard it, and I could just see it on your face. You were clear. I could see that you were getting happy.

I also knew your past, and I love being a character in somebody’s story, especially if it’s a success story. I don’t know if that makes me a narcissist, but I go forward in time, and I hope that one day somebody can be like, “Hey, man, just want you to know you gave me an opportunity when I didn’t deserve one, and I appreciate it.” That fuels me a little bit.

I have this platform where I’m able to do that now in the company. I’m always looking for opportunities for that, whether it’s promoting lead carpenters. We just had Joe C. on recently, and his life has changed dramatically over the last year. He’s a stud.

When you were like a year in the company, we watched you failing. Then we watched you succeeding and climbing and doing well. I remember when we were debating whether or not you’d be good for the role. I remember having the thought and sharing it with JP that if we give him some bigger purpose, he’s going to freaking take off and run. If that’s my contribution to help him stay sober, let’s do it.

Number one, I think he’s going to be good at the job. Number two, I think his personality will help him be successful at the job. But then there was that added bonus that, I’d be lying if I didn’t tell you that was true. I know what it felt like when I got purpose in my life. I didn’t have to try hard. I was just excited every day. And when you got in your position, I noticed another shift. It was another noticeable shift in Shawn.

Shawn Fuerst: Yeah. I don’t think that’s narcissist. I think being of service and trying to help other people is selfless. I mean that. I wouldn’t say it if I didn’t mean it. That’s my favorite part of my job, one hundred percent. That’s why I talk the way I talk with the guys.

Eric Tilghman: Even sometimes I fall on my face and I bomb on stage, and the message gets crossed. I’m really just trying to always think back to where I was. We all have our past, and I have a room full of young men, and I’m like, “One of you is like me. Trust me. Do this.”

Shawn Fuerst: I think if I were in your shoes, I’d probably be doing the same thing. I think that’s part of my purpose here, to transfer knowledge, to support, to help people grow. I think what you do is amazing.

Eric Tilghman: Thanks, man. Well, that’s what we’re doing right now. You’re coming on here sharing this story, and I don’t think you would do it if you didn’t think it was going to help somebody.

Shawn Fuerst: You asked me to do this, and as much as I might have had a little bit of fear about it, it’s not about me. It’s about whoever can get something from this.

Eric Tilghman: Cool, man. That’s a good way to live. Do you think it gave you purpose? I just kind of threw that out there. Did it give you a bone to chase?

Shawn Fuerst: Absolutely. I was completely lost and beaten down before I even started this job. Yes, it definitely gave me a vision. It gave me hope for the future. It showed me that I still got it. I still can be. I still have a chance at redeeming myself in life. You gave me an opportunity.

Eric Tilghman: Cool. We talk about this a lot in leadership, but I always use the example of fatherhood. You can’t fire your children. You’re not the only one. There have been others, and I’ll have them on. Different story. But you can’t fire your children. At one point in time, one of my kids is struggling with something. You can’t just be like, “You know what, that’s it. Plus, you’re not helping with the P&L report. I have to feed you every night.”

You’re forced to work with people. I think if you have that mentality, this is kind of a message for the business owner that’s watching. Assess the situation. Look at it objectively, and just make the call. Can I invest a few more months into this person? Will it change their life? Is there somebody better lying underneath?

I’ve seen it time and time again with different people in the field, and JP is so damn good at it, seeing what they’re good at and seeing what they’re bad at and why they’re being bad at that thing, and then pulling them out of it, and then they take off. I think that’s the part of the culture that we’re talking about today.

Shawn Fuerst: Sure. If I were in your shoes as a business owner, every situation is different. I was still sober when you bottom-lined me. If I’m in your shoes and say I started picking up or something like that, I don’t know that I would give them an opportunity right away. Maybe I help them in another way and say, “Listen, like you did for me on that first phone call, why don’t you get a little more time under your belt? We’re not cutting this off, but you obviously need to spend some time, and you need to figure out if you want to be a better person.”

Because it’s hard to get through to somebody that’s actively using. It’s a whole other beast.

Eric Tilghman: Yeah, I’m sure. I’ve been faced with that too, and I’ve tried, and it didn’t work in those few cases. Maybe a handful.

What would you tell somebody who’s struggling with addiction now?

Shawn Fuerst: It’s never too late. There is hope. There is help. You can always reach out to me. You can reach out to anybody in AA. Honestly, there are plenty of people out in this world in these recovery programs that want to help you. It’s never too late.

Eric Tilghman: What do people misunderstand about recovery or substance abuse disorder?

Shawn Fuerst: I think I’ve learned enough about substance abuse disorder. Like you said, it’s really hard to pull someone out of that. You can’t rationalize with somebody like that. They have to be cleared of that fog. They have to be of a clear mind.

I can only speak from my experience. Whenever I had something in me, it didn’t matter what it was, I was going to do whatever I needed to do to get the next one. My mom could have begged me to stop, and she has, and it didn’t stop me from getting high. You could have put $5,000 in front of me and said, “Listen, if you stop today, I can give you this,” and I would have gotten high again.

They say frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices, which means no one can do it for you. No one can influence you into getting sober. You have to do it for yourself.

But you asked a question about recovery. Recovery is a freedom for me. It’s a place for me to be myself and to be my true, genuine self, and be the person that I’ve always thought or wanted to be. Without recovery, I can’t be that person.

I feel that I have recovered from my substance abuse disorder. I have a solution for it today. Doesn’t mean that tomorrow is guaranteed that I’m not going to drink, but today I have a solution for it.

Eric Tilghman: That’s great, man. I’m glad you’re free. How has your life changed outside of work? I think I already know the answer. You go to a lot of meetings, right? You’re heavily involved in your groups.

Shawn Fuerst: I do. I sponsor other men, help them get through the steps. I go to a lot of meetings. I’m an intergroup rep for a 12-step program.

There was a point in time when I was in the halfway house, and guys would come in, and I’d be like, “There’s no way I’m doing what you guys do. You guys are so happy doing it.” And then today, that’s what I’m doing. I had what they call the psychic change, just a different mindset, a different outlook on things. I never want to give that up today.

Eric Tilghman: Is that how you see yourself being most successful today? Is that the thing that you’re most proud of?

Shawn Fuerst: Right now? Absolutely. My sobriety, my recovery, and being able to help others, absolutely. I think it’s going to help me do other things as well. As long as I stay within my program and provide service to other people, I think that’s going to keep me out of myself, and it’s going to help me do all the things that I want to do.

Eric Tilghman: So where do you want to be in five years?

Shawn Fuerst: I’d like to be a homeowner. I’d like to have a family. I don’t know if that’s in the equation, but yeah.

Eric Tilghman: Damn, I never heard you say that. I never thought about it.

Shawn Fuerst: I mean, neither did I for the longest time. But then I had a relationship with a young little girl. I don’t mean it like that. I had a relationship with a child that I’d never experienced before. We became best friends, and it was probably one of the most magical experiences of my life.

Eric Tilghman: What age?

Shawn Fuerst: She was one to four. I never experienced that before, and I liked it. I was good at it.

Eric Tilghman: Good age. You can always give them back at the end of the day.

Shawn Fuerst: Until they’re yours. Exactly. What happened was, I ended up going down a dark place once I lost that relationship. I want that today.

Eric Tilghman: They’re innocent. They’re cute. They’re the closest people to God. They were the last ones to see Him. Then life kind of messes you up, and you change, and then hopefully you come back. That’s cool, man. I never heard you say that, and I never asked.

You’d be a great dad, one hundred percent. It’s life-changing. You think sobriety put a rocket up your butt? Being a dad, it’s like, you think you’re driven now. Once you become a dad...

I didn’t know that’s what it was, but it was six months after my son was born, my first child. I just thought I had a personality shift, a psychic change. It was like six months after I had my son, and it’s never worn off.

Shawn Fuerst: When I had that experience, that was the first time I had found any purpose at all. I was like, “Wow, this definitely is something I want in life.” Before that, I was just a lost soul that really just got by on a daily basis, doing God knows what. Having that experience really opened my eyes to a whole other life, a whole different life.

Eric Tilghman: Cool, man. Very cool. Well, keep me posted on that.

We’ll kind of close out here, but a few more questions. This podcast is about culture. This fits into that broad topic, right? Doing the right thing, not firing your kids, listening to people, caring about them.

I always say, “What’s the best way to show your team you care? Just care.” Start there. Be grateful for them, want them to do well, and acknowledge that they exist.

What do you think makes the culture different? We all know how it feels, but what is it?

Shawn Fuerst: It starts with you.

Eric Tilghman: What makes this culture different? We have 40 guys and gals going in a straight line together, excited, not arguing. We have a common mission. We have fun. We laugh, but we’re also productive and professional. What is it?

Shawn Fuerst: It’s in the air. Everyone has a voice. Whether their ideas are played out or not, they’re always heard. I think that’s something you don’t find in other companies. You have a boss, and they have all the ideas. Here, I see it all the time. We work together to figure out how we can better ourselves as a team.

Eric Tilghman: Last question. We try to convince other business owners to run their companies the same way. Do you think culture can literally change lives? Do you believe that?

Shawn Fuerst: Yes. It can definitely lead them to that, I’d say. At the end of the day, it really starts with someone like you who has that passion to make that happen. But yes, culture.

Listen, man, I’ve worked for a lot of different places, and this is definitely unique. It’s not like other places. I’ve never felt so comfortable in a place, mainly from the beginning, and accepted. You can tell that everyone doesn’t hate their job. They enjoy coming to work every day. Whether they’re stressed out with what’s going on or not, at the end of the day, they still enjoy what they’re doing and the people they’re doing it with.

Eric Tilghman: Cool. Thank you. Well, I think that’s it, man. I’m proud of you, dude. I really am. I’m grateful that you came on today and got vulnerable, put yourself out there on your very first podcast. Really, man, I think you’re an example for a lot of people, and I hope that you continue lifting people up and doing the thing with your groups.

I see it in you. I see that change, and I think it’s totally awesome. I really, really do. I was looking forward to this. This was perfect. This is exactly what I was hoping it would be. Thanks for being vulnerable. I think we probably helped somebody out there today. Congrats on all your success. Keep it going, one day at a time, right?

As always, thanks for staying tuned. Stay positive, be nice, and step out of your comfort zone. Bye.